Posts by Marvin Shilmer

21

usa 2001 stats

by jeffory in

jw
friends

avg.

pubs in 2001 service year[ usa] 945,689 compared to 945,000 avg.

in 2000.. total baptized in 2001 service year 28,239 compared to the 28,475 in 2000.

Off the top of my head, I’m pretty sure your numbers of average pubs for service years 2000 and 2001 are correct, but I believe your figures for baptisms in year 2000 are off. Compared to 2000, baptisms for year 2001 were less, but I believe they were significantly less than your numbers indicate. I think the actual margin is nearer to 2,000-3,000.

Interestingly, as a measure of growth, averaged over the past 10 years, the ratio of JW pubs in the USA to population has declined. This decline is prominent during the past 3 years. If memory serves me right, as a ratio, the 2001 year shows about 25,000 less publishers to population as was indicated in 1992 stats.

9

UN NGO...? for hawkaw

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

hi, hawkaw.

i have a question for you.

in all your discussions with the uns ngo chief, was there any talk about membership fees or dues required from ngos?

Marvin Shilmer

Hi, Hawkaw

I have a question for you. In all your discussions with the UN’s NGO chief, was there any talk about membership fees or dues required from NGOs? If you do not have sure knowledge of this I would suggest finding out.

It is one thing to be accepted upon application, but providing funding by way of membership fees or dues is an additional layer of association through support, financial support. And we all know how the WTS views financial association and support of objects of worship.

31

Supplementary meeting: synopsis

by Moxy in

jw
friends

the meetings were held in michigan (bibleexaminer), long island (nytelecom), san diego (elder families only), and here in toronto.. the stadium we used is the same we normally use for district conventions.

unlike the dc tho, which is spread over 2 weekends at the stadium, it was packed absolutely full.

it was very hard to find seats anywhere, just a few singles here and there and lots standing in the halls.

Marvin Shilmer

Hi, Comment

The only thing the June 15 and Oct. 15, 2000 Watchtowers have in common is that both have QFR articles dealing with aspects of the blood transfusion issue. Amazingly, both these articles have successfully mucked up the whole mess more so than it already was--by a factor of 2 or 3 I would say.

My guess is they want elders to bring these along for one or both of the following reasons:

1. Explain in plain language what the bloody articles really say (allows hemoglobin solutions and any other blood parts as long as they are not in the FORM of red cells, white cells, platelets, plasma or whole blood)

2. Assert to elders that this whole question of medical use of blood has become so intricate that shunning action has become practically impossible to enforce in all but the rarest occasions where publishers say, “Yes, I used red cells, so what?” Or “So-and-so took red cells and everyone knows it, so what you gonna do bout it?” Etc. Bottom line: don’t enact shunning mechanisms unless a publisher is just begging for it or a congregation’s peace is immediately threatened. This would be a backdoor manner of dispensing with shunning issues as they relate to blood. (Translation: keep the fear by KEEPING the weapon, just don’t USE the weapon)

On point two, I have to share one of my all time favorite bits of movie humor. In a war movie there was a tank commander that welded a 16-inch by 20-foot pipe to the side of his tank. Since this pipe was useless as a weapon, a general asked why it was welded on the side of one of his tanks. The tank commander responded, “Sir, the enemy doesn’t know this is just a piece of 16-inch pipe.”

31

Supplementary meeting: synopsis

by Moxy in

jw
friends

the meetings were held in michigan (bibleexaminer), long island (nytelecom), san diego (elder families only), and here in toronto.. the stadium we used is the same we normally use for district conventions.

unlike the dc tho, which is spread over 2 weekends at the stadium, it was packed absolutely full.

it was very hard to find seats anywhere, just a few singles here and there and lots standing in the halls.

Marvin Shilmer

Moxy:

Just like so many of us, I think our friend Max was hearing the “change” and “new” words from the upper decks of planet WTS. This makes people think out loud.

Also, it could be that recent events caused some last minute quite retraction of material. Who knows? No one is talking. Not to forget is the fact that ex-JWs and--cough, cough--disloyal JWs were the ones who initially leaked the fact of this “special” meeting. This was an embarrassment in itself, and alone might have made that celebrated body called Governing to rethink any big announcements.

Talking about events, has anyone here heard the genuine news about items elders have been instructed to bring to this year’s KM school for elders? Only three reference works. 1) The ks91 textbook (“Flock book”), 2) the June 15, 2000 Watchtower and 3) the October 15, 2000 Watchtower. This should be interesting, folks!

31

Supplementary meeting: synopsis

by Moxy in

jw
friends

the meetings were held in michigan (bibleexaminer), long island (nytelecom), san diego (elder families only), and here in toronto.. the stadium we used is the same we normally use for district conventions.

unlike the dc tho, which is spread over 2 weekends at the stadium, it was packed absolutely full.

it was very hard to find seats anywhere, just a few singles here and there and lots standing in the halls.

Marvin Shilmer

BTW, everyone:

Now we know why the normal insider leaks did not provide an advance scoop on why the supplemental “special” meeting--there was nothing to leak.

31

Supplementary meeting: synopsis

by Moxy in

jw
friends

the meetings were held in michigan (bibleexaminer), long island (nytelecom), san diego (elder families only), and here in toronto.. the stadium we used is the same we normally use for district conventions.

unlike the dc tho, which is spread over 2 weekends at the stadium, it was packed absolutely full.

it was very hard to find seats anywhere, just a few singles here and there and lots standing in the halls.

Marvin Shilmer

Hi Moxy!

Thanks for going through that for everyone else’s sake.

Like everyone else, I too was wondering “why this supplemental meeting?” I also wondered why I didn’t get tickets, until a few days ago. A brother I know who happens to be a president of one WTS corporation told me “I didn’t send you tickets because I knew you would have better things to do.”

It amazes me how closely the WTS follows the private sector corporate model in its approach to problems. In this case the GB has witnessed a dwindling of enthusiasm, so what did they do? They did the same thing so many corporate entities have--identify an existing source of enthusiasm and capitalize on it. The WTS knows there is unique interest in its Pennsylvania Corporation annual meeting each year. Usually this interest is more of the tempest in a teapot variety, but it is there. (Tempest in a teapot variety because: Rank and file JWs usually have little knowledge of or unique interest in this annual event. On the other hand, ranking members of the Bethel family and other Bethelites hold this meeting in higher esteem than normal conventions.)

In the private sector this sort of capitalization usually backfires unless a new and meaningful dynamic is added into the mix. People aren’t as stupid as we so often convince ourselves, and they react according unless they see some bona fide improvement--in this case improvement to stir enthusiasm.

In this case, it looks like the message taken home to congregation publishers is: “Hey, now we have an ADDITIONAL assembly to go to each year.” How many think the average publisher will get excited about THAT? No newly added and meaningful dynamic equals continued dwindling numbers, maybe even at a faster pace than would have been experienced otherwise.

Little wonder I was told “I knew you would have better things to do.” I did the yard--it looks FANTASTIC, btw. I can now declare that “I was saved!” :)

What burns me is how a few senior Bethel members were using words like “change” and “new” so much preceding this non-event event. Looking at the business model as a barometer, my guess is this will backfire. For sure next years “supplemental event” will not stir standing room only response.

19

letter to British Bethal

by sleepy in

jw
friends

i hope to send this letter today although i must seriously consider the consequences if i do.. please let me know if i got the ngo info right.. dear brothers,.

i am writing on two matters of major concern to me.. firstly recently i have become aware of the fact that the watchtower society of jehovahs witnesses in new york is associated as an ngo (non governmental organisation) with the department of public information of the united nations organisation.. at first i was very skeptical of the idea , but when i checked it out on the uns web site i found that jehovahs witnesses were indeed listed in partnership with the un.. this is puzzling to me as by belief has been that the un was taught by the faithful and discreet slave to be part of satans political system of things.. here are some quotes from watchtower literature.. *** re 248 34 an awesome mystery solved ***.

the un is actually a blasphemous counterfeit of gods messianic kingdom by his prince of peace, jesus christto whose princely rule there will be no end.. .

Marvin Shilmer

Hi, Sleepy!

Your letter is good, and, by itself, I don’t think you need expect bad repercussion for yourself, or any at all. Probably you will get an answer and it will say something like “The August Watchtower comment was not advocating mind control.”

Probably they will also address the July issue comments by adding an assertion like “While Christians do not doubt trusted and unifying sources of information, especially one that has caused good fruitage, they should guard against gullibility, which is the import of the July Watchtower comment.” They will skirt your question.

Of course, this is not what they have actually put in print, and most of us know the extremes that some elders will take this information. Many also have experience with the WTS itself applying comments like the one in the August issue with sharp harshness in an effort to confuse and breakdown individual JWs into making a confession of “having doubts.”

Editing suggestions on this thread are pretty good too. You should consider some of them. But make this letter your own—use your own wording. We must own what we do and say in order to be honest.

80

Nov. 8 Awake - Wife Beaters-Sick

by MrMoe in

jw
friends

i will let you all hang who ever the heck wrote this crap.

november 8, 2001 awake page 9: some battered women may need to seek assistance from the authorities.

at times, a point of crisis-such as intervention of the police-can cause an abusive man to see the seriousness of the action.. page 12: should the battered wife leave her husband?

Marvin Shilmer

Page 12:
Should the battered wife leave her husband?" The Bible does not treat martial separation lightly. At the same time, it does not oblige a battered wife to stay with a man who jeopardizes her health and perhaps her very life. The Christian apostle Paul wrote: "If she should actually depart, let her remain unmarried or else make up with her husband." Since the Bible does not forbid separation in extreme circumstances, what a woman does in this matter is a personal decision. No one should coax a wife to leave her husband, but neither should anyone pressure a battered woman to stay with an abusive man when her health, life, and spirituality are threatened.
Is There Hope for Batterers?
Spouse abuse is a brazen violation of Bible principles. At Ephesians 4:29,31, we read: "Let a rotten saying not proceed out of your mouth.. Let all malicious bitterness and anger and wrath and screaming and abusive speech be taken away from you along with all badness."

Today most elders would probably counsel abused wives according to the above. But formerly, with little wonder why, congregation overseers have advised JW women they should endure their husbands abuse, for the husbands sake.

*** w64 4/15 249-50 What Holds You Back from True Worship? ***
Real love for the family is shown by being willing to put up with disapproval, or even abuse, so that those unbelieving family members may have the best possible opportunity to learn the truths from God’s Word and come in line for the everlasting blessings that Jehovah God holds out to those who serve him.—1 Pet. 3:1-6.

*** km 6/76 1-3 The Truth Is Beneficial Each Day ***
One sister thought recently that she could not endure any more mental and verbal abuse from her opposed husband. On her own she decided to separate from him, but before doing this she went to Jehovah in prayer and read carefully 1 Corinthians 7:10-16 and 1 Peter 3:1-6. She reviewed her situation with two of the local elders and obtained mature advice and help. Thereafter she decided to talk to her husband and tell him what she had thought about doing but reconsidered in the light of the Scriptures. She spoke to him kindly and respectfully, but frankly, and her opposed husband reacted favorably. He had not seen his actions objectively, but assured his wife that things would be better. The truth benefited this sister greatly because she took a wholesome, Scriptural course of action and Jehovah blessed her.

26

Ashamed

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

but whoever has this worlds means for supporting life and beholds his brother having need and yet shuts the door of his tender compassions upon him, in what way does the love of god remain in him?

little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth.1 john 3:17-18 nwt .

you must love your neighbor as yourselfmatt 22:39 nwt.

Marvin Shilmer

But whoever has this world’s means for supporting life and beholds his brother having need and yet shuts the door of his tender compassions upon him, in what way does the love of God remain in him? Little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth.—1 John 3:17-18 NWT
You must love your neighbor as yourself—Matt 22:39 NWT

Tuesday, in the immediate aftermath of the World Trade Center bombing and collapse, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses locked the doors of its Brooklyn facilities. First hand, I was told this was to keep out the traffic. On the outside were countless exhausted persons in utter shock and in grief. They had a need. A microcosmic tragedy amidst colossal tragedy. What a spectacle. I am ashamed.

14

Terrible tradgedy - more deaths...

by Simon in

jw
friends

not the terrible act of terrorism that we all saw on tv.... i was thinking of the 30,000 children under the age of 5 who will have died on the same day from malnutrition and other preventable diseases.

slow, horrible deaths.

these people are poor but the parents must love them as much as any 'rich westener' loves theirs.. the real tragic thing is that another 30,000 will die today and another 30,000 tomorrow... over 12 million a year in total .

Marvin Shilmer

Hi, Simon

Like many others, I have seen some of this suffering first hand, and it is sobering.

Once I saw a small child quietly die in its mother’s arms while she was waiting outside a hospital for treatment. This woman was just sitting there silently, with tears running down both cheeks, while her child just burned to death with fever. The hospital was no more than a five room tin shack. The woman looked exhausted and at the end of her rope, and maybe nothing could have saved here child, I don’t know. But I do know that just up the street about two hundred feet was the “private hospital,” the one available to the wealthier residents of the community, the one where no one was waiting in line, the clean building, the one with air conditioning and new paint. It was encircled by two layers of fifteen-foot high razor fence, and an armed guard at the entrance. I don’t want to say the country where this was witnessed, but it was closer to the good ole US of A than many US citizens would believe. Too many are so ignorant of the day to day tragedies happening, sometimes in our own backyards.

I know humanitarians who give themselves to help poor souls suffering in poverty and tyranny stricken countries, but one has to wonder if more can be done, and if more will be done, and what can be done. As you show, the suffering is immense, every single day. Statistically it can be argued that suffering today is less than in the past, but that does not take away the suffering we have today, and the fact that it is enormous.

Not trying to pile on here. Just musing out loud, about things.